Brilliant idea for topoff systems?
Last Post 01-06-2009 8:50 PM bysteviek. 14 Replies.
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    Tom FortUser is Offline
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    Tom Fort

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    02-27-2007 3:26 PM

      I know that it is always a concern that a float switch might become stuck and continue to allow water to be pumped into a tank resulting in a tragedy.

      I'm sure I'm not the first person to do this but I've never seen it mentioned anywhere. If you were to plug the ATO unit into a timer and have the timer set to come on two or three times a day for only a few minutes each time, it seems this would avoid any catastrophic failures. The timer could be fine tuned to where it would allow enough water (and maybe just a little bit extra) to be pumped into the tank to replace any evaporation, and then the timer would shut off. If the float switch became stuck, only as much water would flow into the tank as the timer would allow. By setting the timer where it would come on during a period when you usually observe the tank, it would be possible to notice a problem and have time to correct it before a catastrophy happens. Or if you noticed the water level to be above the normal shutoff level of the float switch, that would be a clue to take corrective action.

      Before I had a real auto topoff system, I was using a timer to turn a pump on for a few minutes each day. I had the timer set to not quite fill the tank back to the desired level which would allow me to only have to manually add topoff water a couple of times a week. The method I described above is taking the best of both worlds. Instead of the redundancy of multiple float switches (which could still fail) this seems foolproof to me.

      Does anyone here see any problems with doing this?

      May you all be well and happy.

      210 mixed reef with 90 gallon sump/fuge
      22 gallon frag tank
      20 gallon Mantis tank
      SerkUser is Offline
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      Serk

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      02-27-2007 3:39 PM
      I'd seen people doing that, and seriously considered doing just that myself (Until I hooked up quad redundant float switches.)

      The R3 tank's topoff tank is fed that way, the RO line going to it has an electronic solenoid that's only opened a few hours a day to limit the amount of topoff water that can be put in the tanks...
      Brian
      150G Oceanic RR up since 9/2000
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      Tom FortUser is Offline
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      Tom Fort

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      02-27-2007 3:44 PM
      Posted By Serk on 02/27/2007 4:39 PM
      I'd seen people doing that, and seriously considered doing just that myself (Until I hooked up quad redundant float switches.)

      The R3 tank's topoff tank is fed that way, the RO line going to it has an electronic solenoid that's only opened a few hours a day to limit the amount of topoff water that can be put in the tanks...



      Cool.

      I feel validated.

      May you all be well and happy.

      210 mixed reef with 90 gallon sump/fuge
      22 gallon frag tank
      20 gallon Mantis tank
      Steve AllenUser is Offline
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      Steve Allen

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      02-27-2007 4:01 PM
      When I finally get around to getting my solenoid and my new switch in place I plan on doing the same. Also going to implement the process that Ashlar has discussed to prevent the RO from bouncing.
      AquadudeUser is Offline
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      Aquadude

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      02-28-2007 5:34 AM
      I have been using this same method for nearly two years without trouble. I have my Aquacontroller give a shot of water a few times a day which just barely exceeds my evaporation rate. The float valve closes off the water if the sumptank happens to get a bit too much. For even greater safety I plan on adding a high level float switch alarm to the controller if I ever get around to it.

      Tom FortUser is Offline
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      Tom Fort

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      02-28-2007 9:09 AM
      I was sure that I wasn't the first person to think of this but I couldn't recall seeing any threads on anyone having done this.  It's one of those things that's so simple, I don't know why I didn't think of doing it sooner.
      May you all be well and happy.

      210 mixed reef with 90 gallon sump/fuge
      22 gallon frag tank
      20 gallon Mantis tank
      Stan SumiratUser is Offline
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      Stan Sumirat

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      03-30-2007 7:58 AM

      I have 2 float switch on mine, but my water reservoir only limited to 5 gallon, so just in case both switches got stuck, the max water that can be pump into the sump is only 5 gallon.  I have about 10 gallon extra space for water in the sump at operating level.

      stan

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      patrick1234User is Offline
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      patrick1234

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      02-13-2008 12:37 PM
      Posted By Flamenco-T on 03/30/2007 8:58 AM

      I have 2 float switch on mine, but my water reservoir only limited to 5 gallon, so just in case both switches got stuck, the max water that can be pump into the sump is only 5 gallon.  I have about 10 gallon extra space for water in the sump at operating level.

      stan


      But wount your top of pump burn  up then?

      2+ 12 gallon tanks and 1+3gal eclipse
      Cube Master aquarium-12 gal a 10gal fuge
      2-2.5 (and now 2 3-gal tanks for the salt water vs. tap water
      20l frag with 20l fuge
      Scott RoweUser is Offline
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      Scott Rowe

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      02-14-2008 5:12 AM
      It can.. but better the top off pump burn up than dump lots of RO/DI into the tank making the salinity plummet.
      patrick1234User is Offline
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      patrick1234

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      02-14-2008 4:43 PM
      Posted By Ashlar on 02/14/2008 6:12 AM
      It can.. but better the top off pump burn up than dump lots of RO/DI into the tank making the salinity plummet.



      I guss I dont under stand what you are saying.

      He stated he onley has a 5 gal and it will holed 10 more gal in his fuge.

       

      Well if the floats get stuck its still going to drop the salinity with 5gal and burn up the pump.

      2+ 12 gallon tanks and 1+3gal eclipse
      Cube Master aquarium-12 gal a 10gal fuge
      2-2.5 (and now 2 3-gal tanks for the salt water vs. tap water
      20l frag with 20l fuge
      Steve AllenUser is Offline
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      Steve Allen

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      02-15-2008 8:22 AM

      5 gallons in a 210 gallon tank is not going to be a very large drop in salinity. In addition in the OP, Tom mentions using a timer. This timer is only on for a few minutes. So even if the float switch failed and the 5g was dumped into the tank. The timer would eventually turn the pump off. Now if the float and timer failed it would still only dump 5 gallons of water in the tank. Nominal change. In this case though the pump would continue to run and could burn up if not caught.

      I think the idea here is that ONLY 5 gallons would ever enter his system, max. Which is ideal. I would not want the system to continually pump water into the tank. I personally am not concerned about a $12 pump.

      patrick1234User is Offline
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      patrick1234

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      02-15-2008 10:32 AM
      Posted By slallen on 02/15/2008 9:22 AM

      5 gallons in a 210 gallon tank is not going to be a very large drop in salinity. In addition in the OP, Tom mentions using a timer. This timer is only on for a few minutes. So even if the float switch failed and the 5g was dumped into the tank. The timer would eventually turn the pump off. Now if the float and timer failed it would still only dump 5 gallons of water in the tank. Nominal change. In this case though the pump would continue to run and could burn up if not caught.

      I think the idea here is that ONLY 5 gallons would ever enter his system, max. Which is ideal. I would not want the system to continually pump water into the tank. I personally am not concerned about a $12 pump.

      Right. But the post I had reply to was about the person haveing 2 float valves so they did not use a timer. And as a back up they onley keept 5gal on hand. So frome my understanding they wher saying they did not need to use the timer because of the 2 floats and haveing onley 5gal back up.

      I was just geting at he be better off with one float and the time.

       

       

      2+ 12 gallon tanks and 1+3gal eclipse
      Cube Master aquarium-12 gal a 10gal fuge
      2-2.5 (and now 2 3-gal tanks for the salt water vs. tap water
      20l frag with 20l fuge
      Steve AllenUser is Offline
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      Steve Allen

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      02-15-2008 11:36 AM
      I miised that. However I am pretty sure the secondary float switch is for backup measures. Both would have to fail in order to dump all 5 in the tank. while both switches are in place it is probably also set up as a high-low type of situation. one of them will kill power. Again, if both fail then max water int eh tank is 5 gallons. Stan does not say how big his tank is. But if I remember correctly he has a large tank. 5G probably would not hurt him too bad.

      My setup is very similar. I have a 5 or 7 gallon container holds the RO. an aqualifter pumps the water from it to the sump. The aqualifter is controlled by one switch (need to add a second) My switch is not in the water it is an air pressure switch. A tube submerged in the sump maintains pressure on a remote switch. as the water drops the pressure in the tube decreases and opens the switch. For me if the switch failed then no more than 7 gallons would be introduced into the tank. When I finally get around to redoing it I will be using the current switch (which is about 7 years old now) and an additional float switch for the high level side.
      patrick1234User is Offline
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      patrick1234

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      02-15-2008 3:20 PM
      See I like how you have your's set up.

      But right now im just using the timer set up no float valve on my frag tank.
      2+ 12 gallon tanks and 1+3gal eclipse
      Cube Master aquarium-12 gal a 10gal fuge
      2-2.5 (and now 2 3-gal tanks for the salt water vs. tap water
      20l frag with 20l fuge
      steviekUser is Offline
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      steviek

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      01-06-2009 8:50 PM

      thought i would share my set up ... as of my new AC3

       

      before my AC3, I had a two float switch set up from http://autotopoff.com/ the one on the main page or here http://autotopoff.com/products/DS1/

      this is plugged into a power source and then controls the other end which is your pump within the RO/DI container.

       

      what i have now changed to is instead of plugging it into the power source i have plugged it into my AC3-8 and i turn it on every hour on the hour for one minute.

      i will soon change it over to top-up through my kalk reactor.

      my thoughts ... yours mileage may vary

       

      steve

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